Curse

Hanok Odbrook · Dec 14, 2011, 04:19 PM // 16:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

But what's more important than 'prestige' of getting things, is giving anyone a chance to equally enjoy the game.

"Indeed, gaming professional, indeed."

Fortunately, Anet has shown a propensity for putting the fun ahead of anything else. I remember many, many arguments like this in the past - extra character slots, BMP issues, extra storage, UAS, World Favor, etc. etc. etc. Ultimately, Anet has always implemented the solution that allows for the most amount of people to get the most enjoyment out of the game. And they have already shown such a proclivity in this case as well - more and more, we are seeing NPCs being implemented after festivals to allow for hats to be acquired when one is not at the event finale in question. Case in point, my Factions only account has Wintersday hats - something that would normally be impossible without such an intervention.

Ultimately, the sole argument that is given against this has already been blown out of the water many times through many examples. All we need to do now is wait for Anet to continue along the path and implement the method of obtaining all past hats. I think it will happen sooner rather than later, most likely right before or around the time GW2 is released, at the latest. It just makes sense for both Anet (additional financing opportunity for GW1) and for the players (the fun factor and collectoritis). Just like the extra character slots debate was, so will this see the same conclusion.

Hanok

cormac ap dunn · Dec 14, 2011, 05:29 PM // 17:29

Actually I think the majority of people in favor of this (we know the names of all 12 of you...) seem to be more concerned about the "I want what you have so give it to me now!" then the idea of some things were just exclusive to the time frame they happened in. By this logic, I should be allowed to upgrade my account to collectors editions(come on free kuunavang!), I always seemed to be on the tail end of Big Farms, so I should also have my skills reverted, I mean after all, you did it, its not fair i missed out! Celestial Pig? Cerratadon? Destroyer? Should these be included in the IGS? all were time sensitive, exclusive, unique. Pre Order Items? what about those too? ok, perhaps people don't get that if you missed out on something, you missed out on something. The world doesn't have to revolve around you.

Hanok Odbrook · Dec 14, 2011, 06:58 PM // 18:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by cormac ap dunn

Actually I think the majority of people in favor of this (we know the names of all 12 of you...) seem to be more concerned about the "I want what you have so give it to me now!" then the idea of some things were just exclusive to the time frame they happened in. By this logic, I should be allowed to upgrade my account to collectors editions(come on free kuunavang!), I always seemed to be on the tail end of Big Farms, so I should also have my skills reverted, I mean after all, you did it, its not fair i missed out! Celestial Pig? Cerratadon? Destroyer? Should these be included in the IGS? all were time sensitive, exclusive, unique. Pre Order Items? what about those too? ok, perhaps people don't get that if you missed out on something, you missed out on something. The world doesn't have to revolve around you.

Actually, I have the hats, and pretty much many (if not all else) that you mention. And many of the people I know are actually collectors and like to have complete collections - what anyone else may or may not have is irrelevant to them. And yes, I see no problem at all with allowing these items (or a more generic item, like tokens or credits) to be sold in the in-game store that would allow others to purchase them.

Again, Anet has already done this with several other items - the Imp, the BMP, the GotY weapons. Just because something is exclusive or time-sensitive now doesn't mean it always has to be so!

Hanok

The Drunkard · Dec 14, 2011, 07:07 PM // 19:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guild Wars Official Wiki

Festival hats are costume headpieces that are typically only obtainable during special events. The festival hats may be considered prestige items as they demonstrate the players were around when a certain event occurred.

Festival hats are acquired from certain special events, such as the Dragon Festival, Halloween, and Wintersday. Different festival hats have different requirements to be obtained. Requirements generally include gathering a certain number of a specific item, being present at a specific time during the event or talking to a specific NPC.

I'm not sure it could be any simpler: you go to an event, you participate on said date, and you get an item that you can wear. If you didn't want to wear it, or thought that another item was more important space wise, you had the option of throwing it away. That was YOUR decision, not anyone else's.

If you could just buy the hats, then people wouldn't bother to participate in the newer events (unless they wanted extra gold), which lowers the playerbase, as well as the incentive to keep producing new content for some of these events).

/notsigned

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hanok Odbrook

"Indeed, gaming professional, indeed."
It just makes sense for both Anet (additional financing opportunity for GW1) and for the players (the fun factor and collectoritis). Just like the extra character slots debate was, so will this see the same conclusion.

We already have- it's called costumes.

Hanok Odbrook · Dec 14, 2011, 07:33 PM // 19:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Drunkard

I'm not sure it could be any simpler: you go to an event, you participate on said date, and you get an item that you can wear. If you didn't want to wear it, or thought that another item was more important space wise, you had the option of throwing it away. That was YOUR decision, not anyone else's.

If you could just buy the hats, then people wouldn't bother to participate in the newer events (unless they wanted extra gold), which lowers the playerbase, as well as the incentive to keep producing new content for some of these events).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hanok Odbrook

Really? So you wouldn't show up for the festival if the hat were to be made available elsewhere (either via store or NPC in town after the event)? Well, for me, the events are more than just to get the hats - they're to enjoy the event and also to get any of the other freebies that go along with them. Being able to get the hats after the event, well, that's just a little bit of a piece of mind where someone doesn't have to worry about outside events affecting their ability to attend the event (such as power outages, ISP muck-ups, or hackers nailing their account and deleting everything - including those oh-so-special hats).

To add to my quote of me from a previous message: we already have several events that have an NPC stick around later for the hats, and according to the official wiki, this year's Wintersday will as well. I have yet to see that affect any participation or bottom line at all. Again, adding this to the in game store would actually put more money into Anet's product, thus encouraging more time to be spent developing GW1 content. Kinda no brainer on that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Drunkard

We already have- it's called costumes.

Of which the Festival hats are now a part. Unless I am mistaken, the last time I checked, the festival hats only go into the costume headgear slot.

Hanok

cormac ap dunn · Dec 14, 2011, 09:11 PM // 21:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hanok Odbrook

To add to my quote of me from a previous message: we already have several events that have an NPC stick around later for the hats, and according to the official wiki, this year's Wintersday will as well. I have yet to see that affect any participation or bottom line at all. Again, adding this to the in game store would actually put more money into Anet's product, thus encouraging more time to be spent developing GW1 content. Kinda no brainer on that.

Of which the Festival hats are now a part. Unless I am mistaken, the last time I checked, the festival hats only go into the costume headgear slot.

Hanok

No offence but isn't it a wee bit ego maniacal to quote yourself????
also in your response to my very valid point which you skirted, you forgot to sign your name at the bottom...

On topic, Adding hats to the in-game store really would have a negative impact as The Drunkard said. Or are we all fond deserted outposts during holidays? Like I said, GIMME GIMME GIMME MY UNAVAILABLE ITEMS TOOOOOO!!!!!! ... but seriously, it wouldn't be a very smart idea to add these. I rather like people showing up to the finally.

Cormac

(<----check it out I have a name that's clearly visible in my post as well)

Outerworld · Dec 14, 2011, 09:20 PM // 21:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by cormac ap dunn

No offence but isn't it a wee bit ego maniacal to quote yourself????
also in your response to my very valid point which you skirted, you forgot to sign your name at the bottom...

Cormac

Your point wasn't really valid considering all the items you listed can still be obtained in game off other players, albeit for a price. Hats can not be obtained by any other means.

Hanok Odbrook · Dec 14, 2011, 09:35 PM // 21:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by cormac ap dunn

No offence but isn't it a wee bit ego maniacal to quote yourself????

Nope - just saves a few keystrokes of having to repeat myself.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cormac ap dunn

also in your response to my very valid point which you skirted, you forgot to sign your name at the bottom...

Skirted how, exactly. I thought I answered it fully. Also, thanks for pointing that out. Fixed my post - too much multi-tasking today, didn't notice I forgot to sign.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cormac ap dunn

On topic, Adding hats to the in-game store really would have a negative impact as The Drunkard said. Or are we all fond deserted outposts during holidays? Like I said, GIMME GIMME GIMME MY UNAVAILABLE ITEMS TOOOOOO!!!!!! ... but seriously, it wouldn't be a very smart idea to add these. I rather like people showing up to the finally.

I guess I have to quote myself again:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hanok Odbrook

Really? So you wouldn't show up for the festival if the hat were to be made available elsewhere (either via store or NPC in town after the event)? Well, for me, the events are more than just to get the hats - they're to enjoy the event and also to get any of the other freebies that go along with them. Being able to get the hats after the event, well, that's just a little bit of a piece of mind where someone doesn't have to worry about outside events affecting their ability to attend the event (such as power outages, ISP muck-ups, or hackers nailing their account and deleting everything - including those oh-so-special hats).

I hate to throw about insults, and this isn't aimed at you personally, but it's pretty asinine to think that allowing festival hats to be purchased or otherwise obtained outside of a festival event will diminish participation in said event. Again, that clearly has not been the case in any finale where NPC hat traders are already present after said event.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cormac ap dunn

Cormac

(<----check it out I have a name that's clearly visible in my post as well)

Remembered this time:

Hanok

cormac ap dunn · Dec 14, 2011, 10:41 PM // 22:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Outerworld

Your point wasn't really valid considering all the items you listed can still be obtained in game off other players, albeit for a price. Hats can not be obtained by any other means.

Ehem... examples need to be more specific? Collectors edition emotes? Pre-order Items? Want a few others? How about the 4th year anniversary Storage Pane?

@ Hanok The problem isn't about just exclusivity, Its about remembering the event for a lot of people. Most people are less concerned about the diminishing aesthetic value so much as a common bond.
A small personal example, I had someone run my newest ele to Droks today. A warrior ran it, He did a fantastic job and everyone was quite pleased. After the run a friend PMed me to say how efficient sins and dervs were at running, For me, the warrior run had me thrilled. It reminded me of a time when that was your only option. Those simple "Remember when..." moments are hard to replace, I could list so many things that my friends and I remember from "back in the day" that would surely send many here into a fond reminiscence. Sharing the "love" is all fine and good, but what will our new generation of players "remember when.." about? They will make new moments, new memories and have new events and well after many here move on, there will be "remember when..."'s.

Cormac (this signing thing is rather catchy)

Hanok Odbrook · Dec 15, 2011, 01:25 AM // 01:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by cormac ap dunn

Ehem... examples need to be more specific? Collectors edition emotes? Pre-order Items? Want a few others? How about the 4th year anniversary Storage Pane?

Yes to all - they all should be available for purchase in some form (either directly or through the use of tokens purchased in the store and traded to a specific NPC that unlocks them on your account), including the special weapons sets you did not mention - such as the Coke play ones or whatever they are. One caveat - the original preorder items should be updated to have max stats at this point, that way they are brought in-line with the Factions, Nightfall, and GotY weapons sets.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cormac ap dunn

@ Hanok The problem isn't about just exclusivity, Its about remembering the event for a lot of people. Most people are less concerned about the diminishing aesthetic value so much as a common bond.
A small personal example, I had someone run my newest ele to Droks today. A warrior ran it, He did a fantastic job and everyone was quite pleased. After the run a friend PMed me to say how efficient sins and dervs were at running, For me, the warrior run had me thrilled. It reminded me of a time when that was your only option. Those simple "Remember when..." moments are hard to replace, I could list so many things that my friends and I remember from "back in the day" that would surely send many here into a fond reminiscence. Sharing the "love" is all fine and good, but what will our new generation of players "remember when.." about? They will make new moments, new memories and have new events and well after many here move on, there will be "remember when..."'s.

Cormac (this signing thing is rather catchy)

None of which changes if the hats (or any item is made more widely available). If it's about the moment, then the item doesn't matter - the memories surrounding the item do not change. Just like the changing of the Survivor title - the fact that the Dwarven boxing made the title easier to get, followed by the revamp which gives every character an unlimited opportunity to achieve the title in no way diminishes the feeling I had when my first character achieved it the old fashioned way, nor taints the memory of that edge of the seat moment when I thought I was just about to loose it only to turn the tide and achieve the victory.

As you said, new players will have their own memories as us veterans have ours (and are still making plenty more). Buying a hat, a weapon, or a mini-pet in a store will not change that one iota. In fact, it may bring more happy memories as it allows someone to log into the game and see his character in a special moment that would not otherwise be possible - sometimes even those simple things can be memorable as well. I know that all the memories I have of the past events haven't changed nor would they if everyone else suddenly had all the hats. Nor would they change if I could buy any future hats either - as I said, I'll still be at the events regardless, making new friends and memories, as I always have.

Hanok
(signed - as always - in fond memory of those long ago days when words were written with quill and vellum)

MithranArkanere · Dec 15, 2011, 11:27 PM // 23:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by cormac ap dunn

[...]

@ Hanok The problem isn't about just exclusivity, Its about remembering the event for a lot of people. Most people are less concerned about the diminishing aesthetic value so much as a common bond.

[...]

Bonds do not require some item to reassure them.
If you had fun during a festival with a friend that didn't manage to get the hat, will that fun be less than the fun you had with someone that didn't have a dinner in some relative's house and could get it?

Of course it isn't less.

But by letting that friend get that hat he missed, now he can ALSO remember that fun he had, AND enjoy the hat he missed.

cormac ap dunn · Dec 17, 2011, 01:20 AM // 01:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

Bonds do not require some item to reassure them.
If you had fun during a festival with a friend that didn't manage to get the hat, will that fun be less than the fun you had with someone that didn't have a dinner in some relative's house and could get it?

Of course it isn't less.

But by letting that friend get that hat he missed, now he can ALSO remember that fun he had, AND enjoy the hat he missed.

And Games don't require you to have everything other people have to enjoy them. Leaving something special to a select group that got to enjoy it might be as good an idea as giving everything to everyone, because as I have stated before If everyone has it, then no one will care about it. Why strive to be a part of something that is occasional if you have no reason anymore to be at that occasion?

So as many times as the "gimme because I want it" argument gets brought up, I'm sorry Occupy Kryta, you are gonna have to deal with being the 99%

Play the game, go to the Wintersday event and the collector afterwords, don't make excuses why for 1 solid week you can't possibly be there and if you miss out this time? Too bad, so sad.

Not A Standard Name · Dec 18, 2011, 09:12 PM // 21:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hanok Odbrook

Yes to all - they all should be available for purchase in some form (either directly or through the use of tokens purchased in the store and traded to a specific NPC that unlocks them on your account), including the special weapons sets you did not mention - such as the Coke play ones or whatever they are. One caveat - the original preorder items should be updated to have max stats at this point, that way they are brought in-line with the Factions, Nightfall, and GotY weapons sets.

Yeah, and when you're doing that also allow me to name my chars "Chuck Norris" and my guild "The Last Pride". And give me one of the trophies in the Temple of Balthazar for cash or make new 2005/2006/etc. tournaments. It's not fair that they have sth I cannot get.

Xiaquin · Dec 18, 2011, 10:05 PM // 22:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpyderArachnid

It is like saying I should be allowed to get sixth year B-Day presents on my first B-Day because it isn't fair cause I wasn't here for six years.

Not really, since minis can be traded, so brand new players can walk around with any they wish. I've never heard complaints that start with "if your char isn't that old, it's not that old, so you shouldn't have them."

I don't want to pretend like I was "there" and violate a flimsy ideal like virtual hat integrity. What I want are nice, traditional hats for all (see yule and wicked caps), and that's totally reasonable.

What could happen is a re-release using a unique, locked color. Another idea is to run updated versions (using new textures/effects) so you can still tell who was at the original event. People will still qq on both sides, but look at the past couple of seasons (at least Halloween and Wintersday), can you really blame people for wanting the more traditional styles?

JONO51 · Dec 18, 2011, 11:15 PM // 23:15

No reason not to. I'm all for ANet getting more resources to be able to put more stuff into the game, and if there's a market for these may as well sell them and put it towards something we can play.

Hanok Odbrook · Dec 19, 2011, 09:32 PM // 21:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by cormac ap dunn

And Games don't require you to have everything other people have to enjoy them. Leaving something special to a select group that got to enjoy it might be as good an idea as giving everything to everyone, because as I have stated before If everyone has it, then no one will care about it. Why strive to be a part of something that is occasional if you have no reason anymore to be at that occasion?

Likewise, games don't have to require that things should be kept exclusive to enjoy the experience, either. So the hats are the only reason to be at the event? I thought it was the memories and the good times had by all. In any event (again), having the hats available at other times other than the day of the finale of an event has not yet stopped people from caring (or not caring, as there have always been just as many of those) or participating in the events. Allowing the hats to be purchased in one form or another as the the rest of the costumes are will not change that fact.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cormac ap dunn

So as many times as the "gimme because I want it" argument gets brought up, I'm sorry Occupy Kryta, you are gonna have to deal with being the 99%

Play the game, go to the Wintersday event and the collector afterwords, don't make excuses why for 1 solid week you can't possibly be there and if you miss out this time? Too bad, so sad.

Funny how that "gimme cause I want it" argument actually helps implement things in games:
Extra character slots
Unlocking all skills for PvP (without having to play PvE to do it)
Removing PvP play from the Favor system
Extra Xunlai Storage slots
Selling the BMP separately in the store
Allowing character name changes
Allowing character make-overs
Separating PvP and PvE so skill balance changes in one does not affect the other.
Implementing Hard Mode in PvE

Need I go on?

As for excuses, well clearly Anet feels that there are some reasons that justify allowing the acquisition of in-game items outside of the norm, hence why nearly every event now has had or continues to have NPCs that allow for the hats to be acquired outside of the finale events. The only thing I see in this thread are people asking Anet to take it to the next logical step by making all the past hats a formal part of the Costume Inventory and allowing those who want them to purchase the ones they need. Many of those also appear to be players who already have every hat and would not benefit (nor loose anything) by having those hats available to others.

Hanok

firadesunna · Dec 19, 2011, 10:12 PM // 22:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aeronwen

/notsigned

If you weren't there, you weren't there. Deal with it.

/signed... I was there on an account that got hacked and Anet could never retrieve for me

would love all my old hats back!

carnage-runner · Dec 19, 2011, 10:47 PM // 22:47

I miss my old hats that found the delete bin because I didn't have enough storage space. I would surely love to be able to obtain them once again some how. Perhaps making them available at an NPC vendor in game for xxx of a certain collectable drop from the given holiday event.

i.e. 250 ccshards for any 1 wintersday festival hat that your account was once able to obtain, 250 tot bags for a halloween hat.. etc.

It would be a nice gesture, and one that would not give anyone an advantage or disadvantage... All it would do is make a bunch of people very happy for a brief amount of time during the holidays or any festival, to once again wear the old caps.

Carnage.

Ayuhmii Shanbwa · Dec 19, 2011, 11:11 PM // 23:11

remember that everyday (or every week) there will be new players, who see old hats, and say: cool, where did you get that from?

i answer: got it from [name of event]
reply: will it come back?
1 answer: i'm afraid not
reply (+ end): aww, ok thx

would those people who /notsigned be happy if they were anet and they didnt make newbies happier with the hats by giving them?
i'd rather not, it'd make me feel heartless (and believe me, i DO have one)

besides, all "event" costumes are still in the store (or did someone else mention that already?)
giving everyone the same makes people feel just as important in the game

as i said, i would like to have the dragon mask (first one) as i missed it with my first account, and only use my first account to really play
(the second account is used to keep a guild alive.... or at least for the guy who wants to keep it, so i just gotta show up once a while)

i dont really care about that mask, but i would like to have it, although i use other hats much more, like cat ears, lol
and the rest, i dont care about

tbh, i dont use other hats very often, just the cat ears and the first yule cap
but i like to see more people happy with em
i also said that i even didnt get the goggles cuz i dont like em, so its not to have them all

as for "gimme cuz i want" i think hanok's point "Implementing Hard Mode in PvE" is the best point here, as people were complaining the game was too easy, and now got HM
so i think those who regret not having a certain hat, could also "complain" and get the old hats

isnt it nicer to share the good feelings you had with events? i mean especially christmas (wintersday) means to have fun and good times with each other, as i have heard

EDIT: i WOULD prefer to see them in the events they actually are from
lil weird getting old halloween hats in wintersday

enter_the_zone · Dec 20, 2011, 12:21 AM // 00:21

At the end of the day, it's a non-tradeable cosmetic item that offers you no, read that, NO, advantage at all. Otherwise known as a costume. Storage panes and extra character slots offer more actual advantage because, for instance, you never have to junk or salvage the random Nick drops you pick up while playing. Which means 2.6+ years from now, I probably don't have to farm Avacari feathered scalps again.

Of course hats should be in the in game store, it's a no-brainer, and there isn't a single legitimate argument with any actual proof to show it would have any detrimental effect on the game, at all. All it does is deflate the haters e-peen, because they're not "special" or "unique" anymore, which is why they dis on it.

Hater: "But you weren't there"

IGS Hat Freak: "Yeah, but I have money."

Hater : "But that's not fair."

IGS Hat Freak:"Wait, so you turn up and get something for free... and then I pay real money for it... and you say it's not fair on you....seriously?"

/Signed